Q: You have explained how desire can lead to realization. The order you mentioned is saturation, renunciation and realisation. When I pondered over this, the noble truth of Buddha came to mind. He started with sorrow. Experiences are what he means by sorrow. The reason for sorrow is desire. In other words ,desire is lust. You have started with possession.But lust is previous to this. So actually , doesn't this transition start from lust. My question is this.
Ans: In the four states of possession, saturation, renunciation and realisation; don't assume that lust is before possession. You consider the possession state as that which comes after possessing.I didn't need it this way. Didn't you understand? Possession includes not only getting but also the desire for getting. The cycle of desire and possession.Obtaining The getting of an object and the interest shifting to something else It is like driving a car liking it then the interest shifting to a new car. Thus the state of desire and possession together was collectively termed as possession by me' Don't think that there is a lust prior to desire . Raga leads to lust just as Dwesha leads to anger. Lust can never be called unnecessary since it is Raga which leads to lust. The whole universe exists due to this lust. Every occurrence is the result of a desire . Desires should be utilised fruitfully. Only that matters - It is nothing to be forsaken I remember having discussed this yesterday or the day before Baiju ,you said that the starting should be from lust Is that your main point? Baiju: There is a potency in lust both in the case of a Buddha or badha. Krishnan Kartha : ok wait why is lust important? Have you thought about it? The main reason behind the transformation leading to formation of universe is lust. When the conscious state desired to change into the unconscious universe it was the primordial impurity This is termed as a primordial impurity. Hence the universe will be full of lust, There is no escape Hence whoever overcomes that will transcend universe The Victory over nature That is it Baiju Why is it called a victory ? Krishnan Kartha : See, in the case of a bread biting competition just imagine that a competition is held for all members of this group : since you are tall your bread will be tied high. Don't think you can win easily. If all take part who will win? The person who is successful in biting the bread is declared winner That is all. one who becomes part of manifest nature truly enjoying it and living blisfully can be called victorious.