Question: If we say world as an illusion, is the life in it not an illusion?
Whether the karma involved in life not an illusion?
The human relationships which are said to be karmic relationships, whether all of them not an illusion?
All the burdens, all the dreams, are they not illusion?
The visions in awakened state, dream state and in deep sleep state aren't they an illusion?
Hence whether realizing the illusion of this life the other side of it?
If realizing Brahmam is the other side, then Brahmam is the truth...
Hence my question is whether to realize this as illusion is the truth?
Is the Realizing that the entire life is an illusion is really the truth or realization of Brahmam or Supreme consciousness?
The stress is on the point that whether karma will then be an illusion, the entire life will then be an illusion.
Krishnan Kartha: Why it's said to be an illusion is that we have already discussed in the previous days that Universe is the result of conversion of consciousness into unconscious state.
It's consciousness which is the only conscious thing.
Blissful Universe is created as a part of the change of that conscious thing into the unconscious.
Awareness is present in this Universe as a respondent of consciousness.
But more importance has been given to experience.
Because an Universe filled with experience was prepared from the time of origin itself.
Other wise originated.
Then for going to bliss it has to go through this unconscious state.
If we again use that example of a movie, it's difficult to watch a movie with the mindset that movie is just an illusion.
Every thing is aware that the screen is the truth.
Although we are aware that they are only pictures moving on a screen, how well we enjoy movies.
The main reason for such an enjoyment is the awareness that a screen is present behind.
As we are having that awareness, bliss will not be taking us beyond a limit.
Bliss won't agitate us, by bliss I mean both pain and pleasure.
The pain and pleasure of the movie won't be agitating us.
Hence we won't get a heart attack or by getting angry we won't be interfering in the stabbing happening within the movie.
We're only sitting and watching.
Simply as a spectator.
Also, we're not able to do anything.
What's happening is to the characters there.
Life is different from it, for sure.
Because we're entering as an actor there.
So we have to act when we're an actor.
That also we should understand.
we are able to enjoy that film well because of the consciousness we have. Like that, in order to enjoy this unconscious universe completely, whether it's real or illusory,( we may come to it later)consciousness is required. That's why the enlightened ones inspire others and try to bring them to the path of consciousness.
Because they understood that this is a very simple thing.
The hindrances that are provided here are actually the things that are enjoyable for us.
It's only that they are felt like hindrances.
As It's very simple to get through them if we know how to face them, knowing this that they start prompting.
Hence the main reason for coming into this unconscious universe is the fulfillment of bliss.
As I have pointed out earlier.
As the Universe has been originated only for bliss, anyone who happens to be here, will be interested only in their happy ending life.
All the organisms... all organisms are thinking about pleasure only.
Their well being... Plants... Their well being, wellness,their growth, every thing.
It's the same with organisms, animals, birds, plants and the organisations created by man.
It can be understood that they are all working for their stability alone.
Thus there the only purpose is bliss and as the universe knows that the focus will be shifted from consciousness to bliss. Hence there arises the point that this will go smoothly only by being enlightened.
Be attentive, the second most important thing is
That the sources of bliss are all made temporary.
How come this has become provisional.
How come this has become momentary.
Momentary pleasures, it can be seen in scriptures that things are momentary.
When we attend to spiritual talks also, we can hear this.
Where it has become momentary.
Momentary is in the hands of those who experience.
The thing which we experience as momentary is experienced with continuity by the enlightened one.
For us it's momentary.
They experience the same thing with continuity.
Then is that the problem with the subject?
Not the problem with the subject.
Most of them has not understood this.
There's a feature that the subjects are all seen as poison as they are all momentary.
Generally, there's no mistake in that.
Because for a person who is not enlightened, subjects are surely poison. No doubt.
In the hands of those who do not know how to handle, subjects are surely poison.
Subjects have use only when received in the hands of the right person.
Hence these things are kept as momentary for not getting entangled in these subjects for getting bliss. For realising that they are not the real bliss and they are actually hindrances for getting real bliss, they will come as momentary again, and not available.... Again coming as momentary, they are not constant....
Hence there arises a state, when one starts to think about what is there as constant?
When? When this momentary bliss is experienced again and again and comes to a saturation.
When one become saturated in it.
After saturation, renunciation occurs.
Revulsion occurs in that.
Once this revulsion occurs, again the subjects will come to hand.
These subjects are then enjoyed there constantly, they are not momentary there.
This is the difference in that.
Thus because the universe has been created for experience and illusion is standing there as an order, it has been created to make it aware that these are all not true.
Actually who learns this?
Who thinks? Who is remaining conscious?
A man who is alive.
Body is a particle of the unconscious universe.
Sitting within this body, we're saying that the body is not constant, not true, not permanent, nothing here is true, only the supreme consciousness is the truth.
Staying in this relativity, it's said that these are all illusions and that one is the only truth.
But those which are formed from this conscious universe will also be formed consciously.
That's the next hypothesis also.
The things which are created from the true consciousness which is conscious, whether it can become untrue?
Hence they are not untrue, truth is present inside each one of them.
Untruth has covered the true state in a manner in which its pure state cannot be perceived.
When a food item was about to be purchased, it was covered by a cover.
But the food is kept within that cover.
It's impossible to experience it along with that cover.
What the Vedanta is saying is to uncover them and have the food inside...
The cover is also made up of the same subjects.
But that's not edible.
So in order to understand that the real edible part is the truth which is kept inside that it's said that the cover outside is Maya or illusion.
How can they be assumed to be untrue
Isn't that truth only?
For those who know Brahmam, what is there around us apart from Brahmam?
Thinking about this by being present in this body, my body is a temporary truth.
When I enquire about truth by sitting here in this pragmatic truth, pragmatic truth cannot be denied.
We can't say it as untruth.
Who can say that this is untruth.?
The enlightened one, the one who has understood the uniqueness, the non dual state, the transcendental state of consciousness.... these qualities which only the consciousness can have... The one who has known this consciousness has the right to use the term illusion.
Hearing them say like that, hearing these enlightened ones say like that, there's no use that we repeat the same thing.
We have life in front of us which we can see and have to go through that life.
Other wise, what will happen? by discarding this as untruth and by searching for a truth which is not this, we're denying today's present and searching for tomorrow.
That's the primary mistake in that.
But the angle which you have told is not this.
Your question is not focussing on this.
It's focusing on something more beautiful.
That's, by knowing that this is not permanent, only an illusion, a very good vision is being developed.
By knowing that it's just an illusion, then isn't it that the consciousness is just this understanding itself.
It's very ideal... True.
By the understanding that it's just an illusion, consciousness will become clear.
By the understanding of illusion itself, there's consciousness.
I would like to say an example for this.
I am saying this because I think the concept will become much more clear by this.
If it's a mistake, please forgive.
At the inn of Sai Baba of Shirdi, one day, a talk about a Gita quote arouse.
tad viddhi pranipatena
upadeksyanti te jnanam
This is the statement in Bhagavad Gita.
The wise who are seers will advise you the wisdom by your repeated questions and by your dedicated services.
tad viddhi pranipatena, with the right dedication, pariprasnena, questioning again and again... sevaya... Through service... Upadesksyanti te njanam, they will advise wisdom.... Who?
jnaninas tattva-darsinah, the wise who are seers advise the wisdom... A talk regarding this occurred.
The Masjid in which Baba was residing was near by.
When they came to that Masjid, Baba asked them about the talk in the inn.
Then they were very much amazed.
Then they said about this Gita statement....let me hear what it's, he told.
Then they read aloud this portion.
Then he told that it was not like that, the a sound is silent in
upadeksyanti te ajnanam.
This should especially be understood.
That's, tad viddhi pranipatena
pariprasnena sevaya.... With the right dedication and with repeated questioning, and service,
upadeksyanti te......they will advise you,what? Ajnanam... Scholars advise ignorance
jnaninas tattva-darsinah.... The wise who are seers will be advising ignorance , that's how it should be read, he told.
Then Baba said, the wise can never explain about wisdom.
But they can explain about ignorance.
If we look at the scriptures, we will understand.
Only ignorance is being explained.
Nothing mentioned about wisdom.
This is not permanent, that's not permanent, that's not constant, that's not unique, like that they goes on saying.
If we take the case of Buddhist school, it's fully this.
Ignorance is being pointed out through out in the Boudha doctrines.
Not that which is the ultimate wisdom.
What all things are not permanent, what all things are dependent... This is what is being told fully.
Thus what you told seems to be very true.
That's why I felt very much amazed.
Because it's the ignorance that we understand.
Those things which are not permanent.
With the understanding that it's not permanent, wisdom will come.
Krishna Murty points out this from a distant angle.
He says that when a totality of consciousness comes, experiences will be able to pass through us, without leaving scars.
Experience will be there, pain will be experienced but without scars
Experiences will be there, but with no division.... There is no division of pain and pleasure there.
There's no division of experience as father and son there.
There is no division as I am a King, not a King, like that.
By avoiding all the divisions, will go by experiencing it with the quality of attention is what Krishna Murty says.
That's a thing which is very much connected to this.
That itself is this... Nothing else.
Hence by understanding that it's not permanent, does Krishna Murty gives a focus to that? No... Why not focussing?
The world which he spoke had no interest in this.
It doesn't mean that he was talking according to the interests.
But we can't talk about a thing when once it's rejected.
It's very much taken care of in the case of Krishna Murty.
Thus he spoke with much care.
He spoke only to those minds which can contain them.
So he talked in a way in which they understood.
Other wise no need to talk in a way that they don't understand.
Hence, those things of life are very well explained in them.
I think in one of his talks in 1983, he has said.... He uses the word Liberation also.
What is called as liberation is actually becoming free from these mental divisions, freedom from them is also being pointed out there.
Hence as you told, understanding itself that this world is unconscious and illusory itself is a feature of consciousness.
But this should come to experience, there's the problem.
What is the merit of getting experience?
What is the merit in being understanding it as illusion?
For what purpose did Krishna advise Gita to Arjuna?
For doing war.
For an enlightened one, there's no need of hearing Gita to do war.
Because.... Nainam chindanti shastrani... Nainam dahathi pavakaha... It's like that.
Nobody kills no one, an arm is killed by no one, fire is not burned by anyone.... Like that, one who has understood that nobody does nothing, then it's the same for him whether it's war or it's love.
Then the possibility of mind to do actions without getting involved in anything will come, this is what is the state when one becomes aware that this is illusion.
Until then we won't be aware, no matter in talking like this.
Today I came across the most famous work of Vallalar named as 'Oduvilothukkam', I don't know whether you have heard of him, he is the disciple of Tirunjana Sambandhar.
There's a work of his.
In one of his works, it's said... If a disciple who is like a wooden doll is obtained, he will burn quickly... If it's brought near to fire, it will burn quickly.
Not like the one which is kept frigid.
It will easily burn.
Very easy to transfer wisdom.
Master likes this very much.
This is first explained by Sri Narayana Gurudeva to some of his house hold disciples, I don't remember their name, while sitting on a vessel.
That's how the land of Malayalam came to know about those sorts of books.
Tirunjana Sambandhar was a renowned wise person in Tamil Nadu.
Vallalar was his disciple.
He has written in it that one's own house will become a rest house
When one become enlightened
With the easiness of travellers who meet at a rest house, play cards in the night and depart in the morning, nearness and happiness will be created in home with the awareness that these are not ours.
That's what he said.
I cited this just as an example.
This is the state when one becomes aware that this is illusion.
If we are aware that it's illusion, we will be able to love very naturally, because there won't be any fear.
No anxiety about what is going to happen.
Then we will be free.
If we want to love, we can.
Love with all heart
Actually only after the attainment of this consciousness that one is able to love truly.
Most of the people may think that it's a state of becoming devoid of love, but no... It's just the opposite.
When one attains the consciousness that it's illusion, then he will be fully filled with love.
The love towards all organisms, that universal love is created then.
No constrained love will occur.
Then Universal love will be created and will be got convinced.
Hence as you told, if it's asked whether the awareness that it's all illusion will lead to enlightenment, surely it leads, is the answer.