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Mind & its two roles

Q: As far as a Buddha is concerned, mind is often existing as his dearest friend. But for the one who is bound, Mind is often seen as a clever fox, a clever enterprise which creates several pit falls, not allowing one to become integrated in any way. We often use several similes to describe this. Told examples, one example was that of a fox who had come to steel the grapes, it was spoken as similar to mind. We have spoken mind as the one which relates only linear thoughts. Then trance, tendencies to keep one in layovers, then fear, lack of self confidence, these are often spoken as the pitfalls that are created by the mind. Thus would you please explain these kind of tendencies which a bound person is likely to have through his mind?

Krishnan Kartha: The fox which was spoken as steeling the grapes was not a reference to the mind. A thing which was spoken in the Song of Solomon in Bible was taken as an example in our discussions. "Beware of the foxes that steel the grapes as told there, was referred by me as an example in our discussions as the awareness which is obtained from an experience, a decision which is obtained from an experience, when we try to dissect it using our intelligence, then the sweetness of that experience, the stability of that experience, every thing may be lost. After having an experience, when we begin to think about it appropriately, its worth will go on decreasing. Here grapes are the experiences. Intelligence is the fox. Thus what is reffered to there as the fox steeling the grapes is about the steeling of experiences by the intelligence. It's not a misunderstanding that one should go forward without intelligence, that's being spread here. That's not what was meant there. But some practitioners and truth seekers are used to looking at the roots of the experiences which they have by uprooting them daily. They are not quite, they are viewing and evaluating their acts, or their gains, or their experiences with a pinch of a salt daily with an uneasiness. Thus they will be getting an eternal unrest. It was told once to mention this, once or twice it was told, but it was not told to mention about mind. But anyhow as Baiju has mentioned about this, mind is also not without having a representation there. Because mind is standing along with the experiences. It's the intelligence which is trying to rationalize the experiences. It's very much interesting for the mind to stay in the cold shade of experiences. It's for that the mind is longing. Thus by deviating from this and move forward along the way shown by intelligence is a journey from the mind itself. We cannot apply directly the similie of foxes and grapes to mind. Mind is interested in these realms and getting enjoyment too. What we call as experiences are often a hindrance to our forward journey. The experiences which we encounter while we're practicing meditation may become hindrances to move forward. There will be a tendency to get entangled there in admiration. It's the habit of mind to get caught up there. Hence it's not the mind which is the fox who is stealing the grapes. This is the first correction. Then the first said statement, the statement which was spoken at the beginning. The thing that was told in the beginning, the close association of Buddhas and their mind. Actually mind has got its importance after the time of Gautama Buddha. Mind was not important till then. Mind was seen as a great villain, now also it's like that. All the vendatis are seeing mind as a very great villain. But they forget that their peace, the pleasure they get when they talk about Vedanta, or when they argue by quoting texts is obtained from the mind. They are using mind for all that. Anyway mind has been pictured as a bad guy. The pleasure that is obtained during oration, when one orates in a session, or when indulging in an argument in a public media, all these kinds of pleasures are created not by the intelligence. It's the mind, then also they see mind as a bad guy. When Gautama Buddha didn't give much importance to the Atma, the mind got its importance. The reason for not giving importance to the Atma was, in my belief, in his state of wisdom, the oneness of the Atma was a sure thing for him. There is nothing like too many Atmas, but only one. It's because as the Atma of mine and yours is one, as it's not possible to differentiate it, as it's not possible to define it, there is no relevance in its study. The panthiests also refer to it as non-qualitative. It was thus left behind as there was nothing special to understand in it. But mind is an organization which requires much understanding. Hence he focussed on mind. That's my opinion. It's during the time of Nagarjuna that the doctrine of emptiness or Anathma came seriously. More over, some western observers and critics say that the doctrine of emptiness was brought forward by Nagarjuna, and it was not present earlier. He puts forth a relativity theory by interpreting the theory of dependent origination (Pratityasamutpada) in the presence of emptiness. As it's told by the Buddha in the Theory of dependent origination that one thing is created from another, he affirmed that there is such a relativity and one cannot be created without the other. He says that there is no separate existence for anything. Existence occurs only as a relative existence. If we say that there is light, light is known only because of darkness. Thus there comes the relativity. Thus relativity can be applied in everything. If I say that relativity is applied very earlier, some of our very senior friends, who say that I am an Indian chauvinist. They will get hurt. Hence I am not saying. Thus already, there came a relativity concept during the time of Nagarjuna. He has put forward an aspect which says that the Universe itself is relative. I believe that the theory of dependent origination and the doctrine of emptiness was brought forth actually, for him to put forward that relativity. As per my belief, the critics had rewritten by glorifying and highlighting the doctrine of emptiness, because when that relativity is glorified, the various kinds of Western concepts will fall apart and all its glamour will be lost. So the most important thing, as I have pointed out in the previous day talk, is that we have obtained many of his talks and the collection which is believed to be written by Nagarjuna from Denmark. Or is being published. I am not saying that there was some mistake in that. We can believe that we have obtained them as really as they were. It can be understood when examined, but critics had discouraged him intellectually from his real purpose. It's not that he was deterred, what he has done has been abandoned. Otherwise ignored. So what I am saying is that after the emergence of the Doctrine of emptiness, or the time of Gautama Buddha it has to be understood that the mind has got its importance. Mind is our greatest friend which is working constantly. In my opinion, mind is the only companion which is accompanying us from birth and even after shedding of this body. All other activities are coming to a close there. But mind is the only thing which remains. I don't refer to here as Spirit of the dead, usually. What I refer to is the mind of the dead. Because it's the mind which is travelling. Most of them, whether it's a neo Vedandist or old classical Vedandist, they oppose the relationship between mind and subtle body. It's only that their doctrine of body, mind and spirit can be kept together with what we call as gross body, subtle body and causal body if put in simple terms. But most of them won't agree, this principle can be kept as understood only when some special mysteries are applied. Hence the first thing is that, the mind which is born with us, which is travelling with us, which is interfering in everything along with us, as it's a large establishment, should be kept in good company without any quarreling. When we start practicing meditation or something in-order to keep a control over the mind, mind is an old establishment, a big one, as I have told in the previous days. Thus there is no doubt that it will suppress all those sorts of rebellions. This is the reason why meditation becomes unfruitful. It's the mind which is making annoyance in meditation. From where the thoughts emerge? From the mind. Mind becomes very energetic. Try to sit in a place quietly for some time. It was very difficult to sit and keep quiet while playing hide and seek,in old days. Then a thousand cough will come. If it's told to sit silently, it will be felt like itching in thousand places. These are all characteristics of the mind. Thus mind will be shooting thoughts one after the other when it understands that we are going to meditate and it will deviate us from that. Hence the most important reason for this is that mind is doing this innocently, in my belief. There is no need to see it as a villain. If we use it properly, it will be like a good friend, because it has the ability to move backward. Also, has the ability to move forward, and to go to the future. For example, some psychologists belonging to the school of Jung, some parapsychologists were practicing a technique called as Ravery technique. I don't know whether it's there now. In this technique, we make a projection into the future after going into an intense state. We project our mind into the future for creating an opportunity to see the future. It should be understood that this is possible for everyone. It may be possible for everyone. Only the one who knows how to control the mind can begin this. Because there must be an ability to give a direction to the mind to travel along one direction. Thus those kinds of techniques are not permanent. Otherwise created only when used. There is a possibility for the mind to go there permanently, possibility of moving forward. Possibility of moving backward also. Even though mind having the capability of traversing forward and backward in accordant with time , knowing that it's better for the well-being and activities of the body, not to go here and there, it acts like a servant by reducing its own faculties and putting forward only those things from the origination of this body. What will happen if we begin to recollect the previous lives of a friend when we see him or get acquainted with him? Mind will be telling us. Then we won't be able to mingle with anyone calmly. Then the earthly life will become a hell. Hence mind is settling this very slowly. What the mind likes most will be to take us to thoughts. Because that is the virtue of mind. But during the death of the mind, that's when get awakened from thought and staying in a present time, by not going into the future anxieties or worries and sitting quietly neither going back to the past thoughts, the mind will be dead. Then the mind doesn't have any importance. There is nothing for the mind to think A time when mind has to be very calm. But as it's a time without having any job, mind doesn't like that. Mind always has an interest to create thought. Thus thoughtless meditation is a battle with the mind. It's possible only for a warrior. Whether it's male or female, the one who does this should be a warrior, one who has full of masculinity in the persona. It should be like that within the path of truth seeking, within the spiritual practices. Hence the restrictions which the mind imposes, the suppressions, all those things are to be dealt very carefully as mind is an old establishment. Otherwise they won't permit us to move forward in our journey. If we slowly persuade the mind, if the mind is convinced, the treasure that the mind has is very great. This I have pointed out earlier. A picture of tending an elephant, like a lean mahout tending an elephant....I had said after putting this picture to control your mind... Master your mind and you can become the Mastermind. Formerly, I had posted those words of my Guru there. So the most important thing is to master that mind. Then you become the Mastermind. This should be viewed by us as a most important spiritual practice. Controlling of the mind. This is what everyone is putting forth. Not only in Buddhism, but everyone. The controlling of mind is what is important in the school of Yoga,Tantra and the like. Then mind grows itself into the responsibility of acting functional. That's mind switches over to a job by coming only when called. When the mind which was acting like a manager which was supervising all the things, gets transformed as a functional mind coming only when called, there the mind becomes a stage for all the blissful experiences. This functional mind will be like a medium for those experiences. This is a subject which we should understand. Thus what's called as the death of mind is the death of a thoughtful mind, which is meant there. Don't misunderstand that the activities of the mind will be coming to a stop. There is a situation where the mind acts as functional, it should come every then and now when we need it.

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