Question: The 'Saaroopyam' and 'Saalokyam' with the God or Guru one believes as is often told....What is that actually? How much it will be helpful in our journey towards consciousness? When we are near to our Guru, when we worship them with their 'Vijnanamaya' and 'Anandamaya koshas'.... As we have discussed, when we move forward by keeping our focus on them, they will become accessible for us. Hence the question is what is mean by 'Saalokyam' and 'Saaroopyam' and how much is it relevant in our journey towards consciousness?
Krishnan Kartha: There are three factors within it. Three factors are Saalokyam, Saaroopyam and Saayoojyam... You have missed the last one. Why Saayoojyam becomes important is because of your last question... That's the sharing of Anandamaya and Vijnjanamaya koshas is possible only in the state of Saayoojyam. That's not a thing which is obtained primarily.... We should never go forward for that. That's the thing... Let it be... we can come to our main point... Saalokyam, Saameepyam and Saaroopyam are the initial three stages. Saalokyam is to live in the world of the Guru or the diety. To be in that world means we will be loosing our world. This is the first state. This is actually the final state of Bhakti demonstrations that ordinary people make.... What's it? They are living in the world of their Guru or God or diety.... Which means they have lost a world of their own. The first thing is to move into the world of their diety or Guru by losing their own world. Among the 99.99 % of those who claim themselves as Bhaktas have not even reached there. Thus it should be understood that they have not even stepped in to that state. That's Saalokyam happens when one becomes completely surrendered by losing all his selfishness. Till then one will be passing through the different states of Bhakti. When we say that Bhakti is love.... Love with Guru or the love with the diety.... That love is classified into three as Saadharanam, Samanjasam and Samartham. Saadharanam is a state where one thinks that God has everything, it's my wishes that are to be fulfilled. Samanjasam is a state where one may be giving importance to both his things and God's things also. Samartham is reached when one is not interested in his things, but only in the things of God. When Jesus is Saying to take back the cup, it's Samanjasam. While saying as "Thy will be done " it's Samartham. For exhibiting this, He had spoken thus, not for his own sake. Thus Christ is showing an example of the state where the son of man should reach before forsaking his body. When he says that there is no other separate will for me apart from yours, he is exhibiting complete surrender. Actually Saalokyam begins there.... Only there we are loosing our world.... Only after loosing our world, we can enter into the world of our Guru or diety.... Only there Saalokyam happens. When we move forward in this Saalokyam, we will be reaching Saameepyam. How do we reach Saameepyam? Now, regarding this Saalokyam, some doubts may be left.... How can we renounce our world? By being away from all friendships and by being locked up in a room without talking to anyone? No. By seeing the essence of Guru in everything around in this world where we deal and to understand the presence of Guru is what is meant by Saalokyam. One disciple became doubtful on seeing Sri. Ramakrishna Deva going out of his room during night... He thought that whether he is be going to Sarada Devi... So he hide himself to see whether he is going to Sarada Devi after giving a talk on Brahmacharya to all of us.... So he hide himself on the way. Some body is having this habit of hiding himself on the way... They will be having such a tendency. He also was having that tendency. He hide himself. What happened then? He saw Sri Ramakrishna Deva coming back with an empty bucket in his hand after having a loose motion in the home stead. While seeing him Sri Ramakrishna Deva suddenly says "Oh good, you should believe Guru only after following him even during night". Like that he says. In Sri. Guptan Nair Sir's translation, it's seen that importance has been given to this and is interpreted as to believe a Guru only after following him even during night. Sri. Siddique is reading Vachanamritham at present.... He might have read this part... I am interpreting this in a different way. It means that one should be in the world of the Guru even during night. To live along with the Guru. To live always with the Guru... To live means to be in the presence of the Guru, even during night, then only one can understand the Guru. That's what is meant by that. Thus Saalokyam can be reached. After that comes Saameepyam. Saameepyam doesn't mean the physical nearness. What's meant is the awareness regarding the mental nearness. The stage of Saameepyamis nothing but it means never to be away. Not to stay at a distance. After that we will be getting the semblance of Guru in the state of Saaroopyam. The name of Bethany group of Saints itself is 'The Imitation of Christ'. OIC- Ordained as Imitation of Christ, Ordination. To imitate Christ is not just to imitate his appearances and outward ways... Imitation of Christ is not about wearing a long robe and growing hair and beard like Christ. Often we know several friends who become ugly by simply imitating Guru like this. They might be trying for this Saaroopyam. But day after day, they will be used by destructive forces and as a result, they will be going into ugly states. It's said that it was not possible to recognize the twelve disciples of Christ, among each other. That's why it was required to give bribe to a person to recognize the particular person. Every one was looking alike. Saaroopyam... May be not because of Saaroopyam alone. May be I have told with a little bit of exaggeration. The people there may looking alike. Or there may be no way to distinguish them... Let it be like that.. After this stage of Saaroopyam, there lies the stage of Saayoojyam. But for an academic purpose, we may take it to be a case of Saaroopyam.... It's a matter of Joy. Saayoojyam means yogam.... 'Yuj' means union. Saayoojyam means union. Not to be separate.... You have not asked about this non dual state.... But you asked about a condition which is obtained only in this non dual state. For sharing the records of the Guru present in his Vijnanamaya and Anandamaya koshas, the sensations that he deposit, the vibrations of Guru etc., definitely the state of Saayoojyam should be reached. When one reaches Saayoojyam, he can experience the experiences of the Guru and he can realize the things which the Guru realized as his own experiences and realizations. Entry into the consciousness takes place only after that. These things won't make up consciousness. But will certainly open all the paths towards Consciousness. That's what is meant..... Journey towards consciousness is still there.... Thus there may be a Guru who is not enlightened, for sure. There are several incidents where the disciple has become enlightened even though the Guru was not enlightened. You might have heard the story of Marpa. For testing Marpa, his Guru decided to make him the next Abbott and his heir, by seeing him as the best disciple. But the jealous colleagues went to Guru and told: " Before making him the next Abbott, we have to test him. You just tell him to jump into this deep pit. If he has faith in you, he will jump... If he doesn't have faith, he won't jump, then we will kill him. " So they became sure in two things... If he doesn't jump, we can kill him, otherwise if he jump, then he will die. Guru asked Marpa to jump and Marpa jumped. When they gazed, they saw him sitting in Padmasana in a village deep down this pit. Guru was very much amazed. The disciples also were excited.... But there fear increased. The love of Guru towards Marpa was increasing. Then they told Guru that testing for a single time was not enough. At least three tests were required. Okay, he asked what was the next. "Tell him to sit in meditation within a hut.... We will fire the hut. " "Tell him not to come outside until you call". Okay... Let's be like that. He started meditation. They fired the hut... Guru can't help calling out... But the disciples always closed his mouth whenever he started calling. That hut was burned completely and it fell down. He was sitting just in the middle of that hut in meditation. Guru was again surprised. Guru said "How come you do these things? " "You are telling, I am just doing. I have faith in what you say, nothing else do I know. " "Oh, it's so amazing", Guru thought. The third test was to cross a river. To cross by walking. The river was very deep and had high current. He was told to cross that by walking over it, he started walking. Guru thought that if all that things happened because of his word, then he too may be able to do that.... Thinking like this he too began to walk behind him. Since then, nobody has seen the Guru. Marpa reached the other shore by walking through it and became a Buddha. This is the story. Why I have told this is to ascertain that even though one's Guru is not a Buddha, Truth will open up in front of a true disciple/truth seeker. For telling that only, I have told the entire story. So going for Saaroopyam, Saameepyam, Saayoojyam everything is good....But first of all what we have to do is to give up all our calculations so that mind can be brought to a receptive mode. When that receptive mode is reached, then Nature will be bestowing with all things that we need. It will be giving all the wisdom. For that it's not necessary that there should be a Guru. We will be getting that knowledge through the several things around us which we will be felt as Guru. Is it enough that we feel? We will feel. Thus it will be possible to enter into that consciousness. Thus if we think that a Guru is required for one to reach to enlightenment, then there will be no other way. Why? It's told as 'Pariprasnena sevaya'. By repeated questioning and by serving is what the Gita says. Hence it's important not to get distracted from constant search and service. Or otherwise, to get engaged in a constant battle with the mind with a culture of a warrior.... And after defeating so many things, at last surrender before the supreme wisdom. Only these two ways are there.